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Zephyr

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1

Donnerstag, 16. September 2010, 16:04

Help with panorama

Hi,

It's hard to believe, but I'm new to panorama shooting (I'm a programmer/3d artist). But now I want to learn more about it. I borrowed my girlfriends Canon EOS400D with a (kit)18-55mm and a 50-200mm Sigma lens.

So I started googling, but I couldnt any 'useful' information. They all basicly say, "put it on a tripod, turn 360 degree in x steps and have 30% overlap". But I couldnt figure it out.. For instance I put my tripod in my room, with enough sunlight, I measured a good ISO (think it was 1600), started to take pictures, all went well. But then my pc monitor was way to bright, and then I tried to make a photo of the ceilling, and I just couldnt, because the camera couldnt focus on it.

So I read something about exposure lock. You're supposed to hold down a button (the asterisk), then aim at a spot which lightning you want to take over, then hold down that button, and take the photograph. But how am I suppose to take 30 pictures, up and down, while holding that button.

Then I started stitching, and that went well. But the krpano droplet said it was a incomplete panorama.... and ask me to choose what kind it was. I thought well I shot in a circle, so it much be spherical... But the panorama looks real bulby now, not straight. So I choose partianal panorama, but then I came out to flat.

I'm wondering if you guys have tips for me. I wanna practice with the equipment I have, before I spend money on expensive stuff.

What are your F values, ISO, mm lens (I read you should use around 24 mm inside, and 50mm outside). How do you get overall sharpness. What am I missing? Even in a wellit room, I have to push the ISO to 1600 which is odd I think (dont know, new to photography)

Tuur

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2

Donnerstag, 16. September 2010, 16:06

you better call me andre.. tomorrow?
or hire me ;-)

Tuur *thumbsup*

3

Donnerstag, 16. September 2010, 16:34

Have you looked at the tutorials at www.panoguide.com? Do you have a panoramic head to take the images? The forum at panoguide has some good info too if you are willing to deal with the comments posted there. In fact, I believe Krpano is under-represented there.

Zephyr

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Freitag, 17. September 2010, 09:10

I did another test, and this time I got the exposure under control. I rotated the camera by hand, measuring the exposure time, then took the average, put my camera on manual with manual focus. mounted on the tripod. I then made a horizontal row with 30% overlap, tilted the camera by 30 ish degrees, did the same again for up and down. I think I took 40 photo's. End result was a 25000x12500 picture.

Only issue I had was that my pc screen (which was in my photo) was waaaaaay to bright. If I took that intoo considiring, all of the other areas would be under exposed. How do you guys handle such great differences in lightning?

And although my tripod was stable, some parts of the photo seems blurry. Mainly the parts where there is almost nothing to see, like the floor, ceiling and my couch. I think my stiching program gets confused in that area.

I've seen the panoguide website, but I can't find useful information. For example, take this topic: http://www.panoguide.com/howto/panoramas/spherical.jsp
How to create a spherical pano. Half of it talks about patenting, then fisheye lense. And bout 10 lines about shooting without a fisheye.

They talk about fixing the aperture en exposure every shot. While I've read never to do this, because you will get great differences in lightning. If I fixed the shot of for instance the monitor, then the surrounding area would be dark, and would not match the other areas. So I'm confused.

Tuur

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Zephyr

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Freitag, 17. September 2010, 14:23

I will, probally tonight :) Read your pm to late yesterday.

Zephyr

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Montag, 20. September 2010, 10:39

Update. I talked with Tuur and got some great tips. I really need a panoramic head. What brands are there (cheap) with clickstop other then nodal ninja?

panocanarias

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Montag, 20. September 2010, 13:49

I really need a panoramic head. What brands are there (cheap) with clickstop other then nodal ninja?

Well, of course there are a few other manufacturers:

* Pano-Maxx (Panorama-Hardware.de)
Looks like a Ninja Clone, but cheaper
[Afaik: got some quite goods reviews in the German Panorama-Community-Forum. Feel free, to ask the comminity for recommendations . *smile* ]

* KIng Pano (kingpano.com)
Well, the design is a bit ... different. Made of Acrylic

* Roundabout-NP (roundabout-np.de)
Simple, straight designed, var. sizes. [Afaik: used by some of my community collegues. Again: just ask there ..]

* Panosaurus (gregwired.com)
Very simple, quite basic, but cheap

* KISS/Minirotator (pt4pano.com)
So small, a piece of industrial art, zero set-up, but not cheap

I personally would recommend the NInja. You may start with a cheap solution (like the panosaurus or some DIY).
But soon, having been infected by the pano-virus, you will look for a better panohead. Imho the Ninja is a very good compromise.

Hope it helps ..
Salu2, Klaus (panocanarias)

Zephyr

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Dienstag, 21. September 2010, 10:22

Yeah I'm trying to get a 2nd hand Nodal Ninja :) From all the designs and possibilities, it seems the nodal ninja is the most robust.

I see some different versions of the NN, you have the MKII 3, v5 and Ultimate R1 and R10, and the 180.

I have a small camera, so I dont need the v5. The 180 doesn't look like much. So which one is the better of of the NN 3 MKII, Ultimate R1, and R10.
It looks like the R1 and R10 work with an lensring (which you need to buy seperately for around 100euro).

Any suggestions?

For lenses Im looking at Samyang/Falcon 8mm Fisheye, or maybe a 2nd hand Sigma 8mm (because the AF, and because sometimes 2nd hand expensive lenses are better then low budget stuff). Any experiences or examples from users using those lenses?

Thanks for all the help guys!

10

Dienstag, 21. September 2010, 15:09

Zeph I would ask these same questions at Panoguide. They talk about hardware alot more than we do here. I think you will get much faster info there.

bulp

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Donnerstag, 23. September 2010, 15:55

...

bulp

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Donnerstag, 23. September 2010, 15:56

Zephyr...

i cant believe that u r not a panographer!!!...

anyway this is my gear..

canon 400D + NN3 + Samyang 8mm.. + modified tripod..

u should consider bracketing AEB ( +1, 0, -1 ) when u shoot.. F16 for landscape F4 / F8 good for interior also and make sure ur ISO 100 200 400 800.. 1600 are not advisable.. since too much noise!!! even in fast shutter speed..

4 shoot + 1 sky/ceiling is possible with samyang 8mm.. with NN 60degree overlap.. quite ok.. just u have to carefully take a shoot in open and busy area ( moving object ) since when u want to stitch the 4 shoot, u might get the half moving object.. and make sure to shoot the same angle twice... that my 2cent tips..

thats i think the basic u need to know.. or maybe u already search and experiment right now..


regards bulp

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »bulp« (23. September 2010, 16:12)


Zephyr

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13

Montag, 27. September 2010, 13:54

Thanks mate :)

I bought a Nodal Ninja 5 with RD16 rotator, a used model, for a nice price. And Today I ordered a Falcon 8mm Fisheye (Falcon is the same as Samyang).

I practiced taking shots with my stock lens. And It went waaaaaaay better with the Nodal Ninja. I ended up with a 21000x11xxx panorama with a "stich value" of 3 aka Good. Althoug I took a Nadir/Zenith shot, the stiching program didnt recognize it... I read on forums I should take a 60 degree zeneth/nadir instead of a 90 degree. So I need to practice that

I shoot with Iso 100 now, with no moving objects, just interior shots. First I mount my Camera, set it on AF, and turn around, and measuring the Aperture. So If I have like a dark area and my Aperture says 1/10, and I move the camera to a light area, the aperture is 1/80. I try to aim for 1/30. Then I focus on an object, and switch the camera and lens to manual. With an 18mm lens I was able to have a 30degree stop.

I didn't know what Bracketing exactly was so I googled, http://rorymolephotography.co.za/blog/?p=251
That seems a good option. I need to get a bigger memorycard though :P

One of these days Ill post a picture. As soon as I got the nadir/zenith figured out.

Zephyr

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Montag, 27. September 2010, 23:18

Well I have a first draft...

I shot with bracketing, steps of +1 and -1. 18mm ISO100 with stock kit lens

this comes straight out of autopano, no editing.

http://www.talentstoolkit.com/pano/tmp

For some reason he never finds the images that are the wall, and even though I shot a nadir and zenith, he doesnt add them to the photo...

Tuur

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Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 00:20

Tomorrow will be the first day of the rest of your life ... ;-P

Tuur *thumbsup*

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Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 02:31

im sorry the Bracketing thing.. didnt elaborate more..

the images that been took with bracketing +1_0_-1 or +2_0_-2 should be merge together.. in order to get the best details in this 3 exposure..\
get photomatix for this.. try to use exposure fusion in photomatix instead of generate HDR images..

after that u can stitch it in autopano.. or u also can try use PTgui... both are great stitch software but the detected code seem different a bit..
when generate the preview stitch pano... make sure the image stitch nicely.. if something goes wrong u always can edit the preview stitch... u can even drag the images... manually of course.. ie if the autopano cant put the zenith / nadir image in it place.. drag it.. the is an option to hide current / selected images..

sometimes in getting more details in interior shoot.. try to use longer exposure.. 1/minus100 maybe... still ISO100 maybe... f/4 or f/8 is good.. this is to make sure more light are detect / capture into images.. this tips for night shoot by the way.... and make sure ur tripod stable enough and no shake..

:)

Zephyr

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Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 09:41

So After I shoot the panorama tiles. I load the tiles of the 3 exposers in photomatrix (over 300 tiles) and perform Exposure Fusion?

Does he need RAW or JPG?

He then resaves the correctly exposed tiles again?

And then you open it in a Stiching program?

I couldnt find how to add a zenith nadir to the panorama in Autopano, even when I forced to create a single panorama of all the images, he still ignored it. I have to look at the documentation or wait till Tuur comes :)

bulp

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Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 10:47

erm.. ok..

RAW is been process in adobe aperture to produce jpegs..

Photomatix work with jpeg only...
all u need to do is just get 1 angle of shoot that consist of 3 different exposure... this is jpeg... 1 angle / shoot for 1 time Exposure Fusion process... since the process need the same angle ... if u mixed up it will produce a layered of images in chaotic exposure.. u will get only 1 result for each Fusion action...
do some minor adjustment to suite ur eyes.. :) before run the Exposure Fusion...

yup. then u import all the Exposure Fusion images..... into PTgui...

Autopano can generate almost precise stitch... but sometimes they failed also...

Tuur is add the same city with u ? that great.. just wait the hands on tutorial from Tuur.. *thumbsup*

Zephyr

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19

Donnerstag, 30. September 2010, 10:28

Tuur learned me some cool tricks. We found out that the main problem was:

A) non stable tripod. I should buy a heavier one.
B) Not enough overlap
C) I really should wait till the 8mm lens arrives :P For a beginner a 18-24mm is a handfull (4 rows, 12 step, 3 bracketing... ALOT of photo's)
D) Don't throw them all the tiles with different bracketing in the same folder and try to stich them all together :P

But I was glad to see I was on the right track, it's just those minor settings I have to handle.

20

Freitag, 1. Oktober 2010, 00:27


Photomatix work with jpeg only...

Photomatix works with a lot formats: jpeg, tiff, raw.. and it highly recommended to work with raw files for HDR or exposure fusion for best results ;-)