Heads up: Windows 8! No more Flash

Zephyr

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Mittwoch, 21. September 2011, 13:31

Windows 8 new standard browser is not going to support Flash (or any other plugin). To enable flash you either have to registry hack the old browser back or download a other browser. Since a great part of the users dont even know the existence of other browsers, this would mean a great part wont ever have flash again.

Adobe is now going to focus more on AIR apps.

This silently means that flash is dying as a webbased way of providing interaction.

What does this mean for krpano: All users should prepare to make their tours HTML5/Ipad compatible. Its still going to take a while though, but it's coming.

According to microsoft, IE10 and the new Metro browser is going to support HTML5 CSS3 3d transformation (which krpano needs). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/hh272…CSS3DTransforms

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klaus.krpano

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Mittwoch, 21. September 2011, 13:46

Hi,

just as note - I'm already trying to adopt the krpanoJS viewer also for IE10 HTML5 but there are still some problems with the CSS 3d perspective for child elements in IE10 - either the IE10 CSS 3d support is buggy or not complete yet or another approach is necessary for IE10 - when I know more or have a working example I will post it of course

best regards,
Klaus

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Zephyr

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Mittwoch, 21. September 2011, 14:16

Hi Klaus,

It was more a heads up for users, because Im sure you though about it ;) About IE 10. I remember an article where microsoft declared CSS3 3d transformation as unsafe. Perhaps they sliced intoo the capabilities of this. I think I posted it on this forum too a while ago.

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Nupsi

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Donnerstag, 22. September 2011, 10:09

Hi there,

and thanks for the info!

@Klaus
Does this mean we have to learn HTML5, or will you upgrade the HTML5-Part of KRPANO to support all functions in HTML5 that we can use right now with flash? Man, that´s some really bad news *angry*

Just got warm with flash *unsure*

Best regards
Nupsi

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klaus.krpano

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Montag, 26. September 2011, 18:22

Hi,

Zitat von »Nupsi«

.. or will you upgrade the HTML5-Part of KRPANO to support all functions in HTML5 that we can use right now with flash?

I'm already doing this

I'm trying to make the Flash and HTML5 parts as equal as possible.

best regards,
Klaus

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Nupsi

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Dienstag, 27. September 2011, 11:04

Zitat von »klaus.krpano«

I'm already doing this I'm trying to make the Flash and HTML5 parts as equal as possible.

Great news! Would´nt expect anything else from you *g*

Best regards
Nupsi

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Zephyr

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Dienstag, 27. September 2011, 14:58

Klaus perhaps can make as much properties HTML5 compliant. But there are alsoo user plugins, and perhaps users have some own plugins (for example a postcard creating plugin, or a snapshot plugin, or a satuaration plugin or a floorplan plugin). Those plugins wont work anymore soon. And it's your own responsibility to make that work. It would be crappy if you sold a 1 yr service contract, and 6months later windows 8 breaks the tour ;)

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HansNyb

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Dienstag, 27. September 2011, 15:13

RE: Heads up: Windows 8! No more Flash

Zitat von »Zephyr«

Windows 8 new standard browser is not going to support Flash (or any other plugin). To enable flash you either have to registry hack the old browser back or download a other browser. Since a great part of the users dont even know the existence of other browsers, this would mean a great part wont ever have flash again.

Adobe is now going to focus more on AIR apps.

This silently means that flash is dying as a webbased way of providing interaction.

What does this mean for krpano: All users should prepare to make their tours HTML5/Ipad compatible. Its still going to take a while though, but it's coming.

According to microsoft, IE10 and the new Metro browser is going to support HTML5 CSS3 3d transformation (which krpano needs). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/hh272…CSS3DTransforms

I do not think this is quite true.

As far as I understand you have the option to install what ever version of IE10 you want.

You will have 2 options , the desktop standard browser which supports plugins or the "Metro" style which does not.
I am pretty sure what people will choose when they find out that a lot of content disappears or performs worse than they are used to.

Remember that here in Europe you are not allowed to install Explorer as a standard on Windows. Windows 7 comes without Explorer.

How much you improve the KRPano HTML5 support you will never get the same smooth performance as with the flash version.

Hans

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klaus.krpano

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Dienstag, 27. September 2011, 15:15

Hi,

Zitat von »Zephyr«

But there are alsoo user plugins, and perhaps users have some own plugins (for example a postcard creating plugin, or a snapshot plugin, or a satuaration plugin or a floorplan plugin). Those plugins wont work anymore soon.

A big development in the 1.0.8.14 was the new plugin interface for Flash AND HTML5 - see here:
http://krpano.com/docu/plugininterface/

With it it's possible to develop plugins for the Flash and the HTML5 version.

best regards,
Klaus

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Zephyr

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Dienstag, 27. September 2011, 15:25

I know :) Still the user has to do it ;) I think that almost everything thats possible in flash can be made in javascript. Im just making users aware. There are companies that base their whole company on a virtual tour created with krpano + their own custom plugins. They have to spend time now to convert those plugins to javascript versions. While at first, it was optional, depending if you wanted ipad support, now it's almost a requirement.

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Douglas Rhiner

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Donnerstag, 29. September 2011, 20:16

Zitat

How much you improve the KRPano HTML5 support you will never get the same smooth performance as with the flash version.

Never say never......... *g*

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Nupsi

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Freitag, 30. September 2011, 08:24

Calm down, Win8 DOES support Flash *g*

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Zephyr

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Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2011, 23:39

Well I discussed this at work.

Why do people still use the fugly IE 5.5?

Answer: Because its installed by default. Upgrades to a newer browser are optional, and alot of people dont run updates at all.

The later update packs/windwos give you a choice of a other default browser, because some lawsuit about monopoly position. But people still choose IE, because they think IE is the internet! And you think thats only a few old ladies, but ALOT of people think that IE is the internet.

See this questionary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ

My point is, people are either going WOW this is bad, I miss my old content and install google chrome/mozilla and we are shed of the tug IE has cast on so many front end developers with its incompatibilty and weird hacks. OR more likely, people will use the default browser like they always did, in this case the default metro browser without plugins and flash.

It has happen before, when microsoft released I think IE 6 where they just disabled Javascript and ActiveX components per default, because at that time, lots of adds were installing toolbars in IE because of security leaks. People still use that browser, and it took years before it got fixed.

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Nupsi

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Freitag, 7. Oktober 2011, 09:33

I´m not sure if that´s really a problem, Zephyr. At least not bigger than the problems with IE we have right now. As far as I remember, Windows and IE do not come with an installed flash-player (not sure about win7?!) but it´s anyway installed on almost every computer. I guess most of the users will start very quickly to use the real IE-browser instead of this castrated version where no plugins work. I also think that especially the producers of security suites will kinda force people to use the real browser, because I´m quite sure that their security plugins won´t work either on the small version.

Knowing that there still will be a flash-supported browser pre-installed in Win8 is a little reliefing, I must say. I think we just have to wait and see when Win8 is released. And no, that does not mean you should´nt improve the HTML5-Version of krpano, Klaus *g*

Best regards
Nupsi

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Tourvista

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Samstag, 8. Oktober 2011, 01:59

If suddenly, every single browser available decides to drop flash, there
will be still 50% of users out there using IE6-7-8-9. I'd still have to create a flash interface for these users, as they
represents half of the available market *smile*

It seems quite clear to me that flash will be present in 90% of the computers for years. Even if that number drops to 20%, it's still a very significant number.

I'm much more worried about the future of flash in mobiles and tablets. The concept of 'old browser' doesn't exists in that world. Browsers update automatically, and new mobiles are purchased after one year or two. So the 'not use of flash' fever can spread much quicker in those *blink*

Anyway, I really would like to totally move from flash to css3d only, but It's not going to happen :-)
Whatever Adobe, Apple and Microsoft decide to do in the future, the only thing we can do is trust Klauss and keep on bringing new ideas and solutions to this forum...

Rafael

360 Virtual tours

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Zephyr

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Montag, 10. Oktober 2011, 23:53

Zitat von »Nupsi«

I´m not sure if that´s really a problem, Zephyr. At least not bigger than the problems with IE we have right now. As far as I remember, Windows and IE do not come with an installed flash-player (not sure about win7?!) but it´s anyway installed on almost every computer. I guess most of the users will start very quickly to use the real IE-browser instead of this castrated version where no plugins work. I also think that especially the producers of security suites will kinda force people to use the real browser, because I´m quite sure that their security plugins won´t work either on the small version.

Knowing that there still will be a flash-supported browser pre-installed in Win8 is a little reliefing, I must say. I think we just have to wait and see when Win8 is released. And no, that does not mean you should´nt improve the HTML5-Version of krpano, Klaus

Best regards
Nupsi

The reason Flash has 90-95% penetration is because sites/tools gave notice that flash is required. Usually it would bundle with expressinstall.swf which would install the latest flash version or point you to the right url. the metro browser bindled with win8, wouldnt allow this (since the .exe wouldnt install).

The steps required to run flash would be more complicated. Meaning that more users wont have Flash. So instead of HTML5/JS support being a nice "could have" for the ipad/iphone support. It shifts to a "must have" because of the 20-50% that now dont have flash and dont understand how to run the other browser.

This "must have" is not a problem, since krpano supports both Flash and HTML5/JS. But, and this is my point, it doesnt happen automagicly. You need to double check your code if everything you have is compatible for both versions. Perhaps rewrite a flash plugin to JS. And yes, Klaus has made this easier for us, with the new update. But still it requires labor. It would be a waste if suddenly when Win8 release, you loose 50% or even 5% of your clientel, because you haven't prepared ;)

The new win8 adds ANOTHER thing we have to keep in mind when dealing with internet explorer (if the different javascript, css and dom handling was enough already :( )

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Nupsi

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Dienstag, 11. Oktober 2011, 10:18

I´d say we wait until Win8 is released, so we can actually see what we talk about. I guess the full IE is just a mouseclick away in Win8 and most users somehow managed to open the Browser in Windows since Win98. Maybe if you click a link in Win8 the non flash-browser pops up, but I´m pretty sure that a lot of sites would show the beloved "Flash player needed!"-message. And if Adobe is´nt to dumb, what I doubt, they´ll somehow implement a link to a workaround or downloadabe EXE-File to activate Flash on Win8.
But that´s all guessing. We´ll know soon enough, Zephyr! But your right that Win8 won´t make the work easyer for us. But there´s still one good thing if Win8 really won´t support Flash: All the customers who bought flash-tours in the past would need to buy new ones ;-)