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HansNyb

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1

Monday, January 10th 2011, 2:12pm

iPhone, iPod problem w tiles. Test please

I have now converted the first 10 panoramas at panoramas.dk for iPad and Android support.
Because of the lack of devices support for the image tags you need to not use the tablet tags but use cubefaces in 1024 to support both iPads and Android full multi -resolution support.

Even a small Android 2.2 smartphone works perfect even for very large multiresolution and I want to support that as we get a lot of new Android devices including TVs with full Internet access and HD resolution on large screens.

Unfortunately I got a message from an iPod 4 Touch user yesterday that using the 512 tiling gives visible tiles on it. I assume this is the same on the iPhone 4.
Everything works perfect using 512 tiles on Androids and on iPads but to using anything else makes iPad fall back to the smallest resolution.

The only solution I can see is to go up to 1024 tiles and skip the 512 which I assume is used by the iPhone 3. With the tablet 1024 tiles everything looked OK on the iPod 4

I would appreciate some testing for this.
At http://www.panoramas.dk all the first 10 except for the first (Snow over Europe) uses the 512 tiles.
The Snow over Europe uses the mobile and tablet tags with 512 and 1024 cubefaces.

I made this Demo which uses 1024 tiles without any mobile and tablet tags.
http://360-foto.dk/stjakobs/index1.html

Works perfect on my Android and on the iPad but it seems that the automatic zoom in on number 3 pano is not as smooth as it is on same tour using 512 tiles.

It would have been nice if the image tags supported the devices settings. That would have solved all problems as it could have been set to flash for the large tiles.

Also you could use any tiles not just 512 tiles. I am now bound to use 512/1024/2048/4096 etc
If I try to use anything else for example 1.8 levels and with a size around 1000-1100 for number 2 level the iPad does not use it but seems to do some resizing or use the smallest size with much lower quality.

That means I can not have a max resolution of for example 3400 and still get a useable size for iPad.

Why can we not define the resolutions as exact cubefaces without these stupid tiling that results in tiles 1 pix wide.
I found it impossible to get normal exact 3x3 or 5x5 tiling with a levelstep which should result in it.


Hans

HansNyb

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Monday, January 10th 2011, 9:10pm

I have just been reading the specifications on all the new Android tablets presented at CES in Las Vegas.
What I can see is that the resolution is 1280x800.

This means that the current option for using the tablet tag is not usable at all.
At least not as long as the iPad crashes on larger than 1024x1024.

Comon Klaus
Get the devices option work for the image tag so that we can get this solved NOW.

Hans

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Monday, January 10th 2011, 9:53pm

based on what Hans has been discovering it might be nice to be able to select our own tiles sizes based on device. somewhere in the config file maybe.

buildmobileimages=auto
iphone3res=512
iphone4res=1024
andriodphone=1024

buildtabletimages=auto
ipadres=1024
andriodpad=1280

we could end up with a crap load of tiles but what else can be done with so many flavors of mobile devices.

EDIT: or maybe we can declare what size tiles we need and then tie certain devices to that set of tiles.

Tuur

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Monday, January 10th 2011, 10:05pm

I don't understand exactly what the problem is Hans..

Is the quality not good enough? as it is now?

i think it looks pretty good... even the iphone resolution on the desktop is quite oke ;-)
Well we always want the best ofcourse..
Me too.

When you set the droplet different for a second run then you have your extra set don't you?

Maybe i'm wrong...

mmm.. i re-read your post and get it a bit better now..
actualy i think the option VN gives should be great!

But he, i think your tone is not kind.. NOW.... hans


Tuur *thumbsup*
http://www.virtualtuur.com
Skype:studiotuur

HansNyb

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5

Monday, January 10th 2011, 10:26pm

Well I pointed this problem out as one of my first posts here and I think it is a very important one.

I simply do not understand why this has not been thought of from the very beginning.

Android in many types will over flow us in the next years. Already now Android has passed iPhone in US.
And it goes very fast.
And why should we not give it the best we can show. Do you really want to show an image in 130% resolution on any webpage. Of course not.

Thats what it will be with the tablet tag on the new Android tablets and that is without any zoom in at all.
Not to talk about what you will see on the 47" Sony Android TV.

And all this can so easy be solved if the devices option becomes supported for the image tag so that we can assign Android or just Flash for what now is called "CUBES"

Hans

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6

Monday, January 10th 2011, 11:08pm

As I said there is no problem seeing very large sizes on Android.
I just visited Julian Kalmars site and checked some of his 6 Giga pixel panos on my Android Phone.

The only problem is navigation on a 4" screen as there is no touch zoom for flash. You need a good zoom button as I have made on all my designs.
But on Tablets that should not be any problem.

Even his 50gigapixel did not crash even if seeing it was impossibe because of all the thumbs in front.

Remember that this is possible with the standard flash KRPano multiresolution and the problem is that the mobile and the iPad tablet tag blocks from it.

Hans

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Monday, January 10th 2011, 11:40pm

If it's a bug, Im sure Klaus will fix it.

remember krpano is in beta, alsoo iphone/ipad/tablet support just came out. There are some kinks to work out, and they will be worked out. Some stuff aren't supported, not because klaus his coding, but because Adobe or Javascript itself doesn't support it.

The examples you provide, which you say they run perfect, feel sluggish on my laptop, could be the music.

Alsoo smaller tiles means more decoding power is needed. So that could explain your experience.

Alsoo there is a big difference between a 8" tablet and 47" tv screen. Just because both run on android, doesn't guarantee both will work the same.

And 1 more thing, I agree with Tuur. Be nice. You made this post today, and you already DEMAND it to be fixed (although you say "we need this to be solved" it's your problem). I alsoo see this in your other posts, where you put pressure for your problems to be fixed. This is a community, where we help each other where possible and exchange experiences and code, no one is obligated to help anyone.

HansNyb

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 12:17am

If it's a bug, Im sure Klaus will fix it.

remember krpano is in beta, alsoo iphone/ipad/tablet support just came out. There are some kinks to work out, and they will be worked out. Some stuff aren't supported, not because klaus his coding, but because Adobe or Javascript itself doesn't support it.

The examples you provide, which you say they run perfect, feel sluggish on my laptop, could be the music.

Alsoo smaller tiles means more decoding power is needed. So that could explain your experience.

Alsoo there is a big difference between a 8" tablet and 47" tv screen. Just because both run on android, doesn't guarantee both will work the same.

And 1 more thing, I agree with Tuur. Be nice. You made this post today, and you already DEMAND it to be fixed (although you say "we need this to be solved" it's your problem). I alsoo see this in your other posts, where you put pressure for your problems to be fixed. This is a community, where we help each other where possible and exchange experiences and code, no one is obligated to help anyone.


Zephyr

You do not read what I say.

I never said this is a bug. I said it is an option which has not been thought of that we will badly need soon if we want to support all the new Tablets and other Android devices which are on the way.

And you say the opposite of me.I say that the smaller tiles gives smoother and better performance and you seems to be imagining I said the opposite.

I think you are far to nice in this forum . If you are a customer and need things to be done you have to point out what you ned. People like Klaus who is a master in coding does very seldom understand what we photographers and designers need.
If we do not point it out we never get it.

Just one thing, the soundinterface has been a beta for what is it 2 years,
When I pointed out that this is a first option fro HTML5 and even presented a homemade workaround for a client, Klaus made it in one day.

There are several other options which probably could be just as easy done. One thing, why do we not have a simple xml code for brightness, saturation and contrast.
These effects are basic things for creating nice designs.

Hans

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 12:25am

And BTW , I still have not got anyone to confirm that the tiles on the 512 versions are visible on the iPhone4.

I do not have one to test, only the word from an iPod Touch user which may not be exactly the same as iPhone 4.
'
Hans

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 1:10am

And BTW , I still have not got anyone to confirm that the tiles on the 512 versions are visible on the iPhone4.

I do not have one to test, only the word from an iPod Touch user which may not be exactly the same as iPhone 4.



Hans I will verify Iphone 4 for you in the morning, i had seen your post today but was not in the office. I have an iphone3gs only but many of my co-workers have iphone4.

11

Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 1:44am

I don' t know how to determine if I received the 512k images but I can see an image looking at Reunion Island with a iPhone 4.

p.s. Just sent two screen shots by e-mail to you.

Jarred

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 9:11am

Maybe you are right Hans, I'm far to nice. But I think we have this community/custom plugins/custom code etc because of nice people. Maybe it's just me, but at the store where I used to work, nice people got more discount, then people demanding their 'right' :p

Ofcourse we need to give Klaus some heads up, whats needed in the community among designers and photographers (although I think Klaus has lots of panorama experience), but in my opinion you buy krpano for what i can do, not what you think what it should do. I bought krpano when it was still beta 7, and it kept expanding for no extra charge, allowing me to do more wonderful stuff. Bugs should be fixed, features should be waited upon. We can steer the direction, but not demand it. From I see from Klaus, the plans he has in mind etc, he is a very busy person. So he has to prioritize features. If you present a workaround of a feature, then you made his job easier and he can prioritize it sooner :)

One more thing, controls to adjust saturation/brightness and such are indeed 'easy' to do (although never say easy, when its not your field of expertise ;p). Based on the autolevels script I could make this in a few hours. But there is a reason why it isnt made yet. Similar effects are applied on tiles on a bitmap level, this together with the mapping/distortion/movement etc would make this a VERY heavy script. Almost inpractical heavy. And the gain would be almost nothing, because all image effects you apply to panorama's before hand. If the image is to dark for the user, but you created the image on a colortrue screen, then it's the users fault.

Example: If you make a music file, you put it through a normalisation filter so the maximum/minimum amplitude (volume) of the song is on every track of the cd the same. It's the user their choice to adjust the main volume. You don't want 1 file being real hard, one soft, and the user keeps adjusting the volume. The same is with panorama's/images, you deliver an image with a certain amount of colour, the amount you see fit. The user has to adjust his screen. I know it's hard to tell the customer this, but you are the professional that has to educate the customer, only if the customer really really really wants it, else you loose the job, then I would consider adjusting colour on that level. I see to many people, cave in, just because the customer wants it.

Concerning your topic, sorry that I misread your problem, I must admit, I can't really figure out what the problem is, I read allot of frustration in your topic and I kinda missed the problem. Performance or Quality or something else?

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 3:09pm

Zepher I dont think he means contrast and saturation of the actual pano itself. he wants the ability to apply them to hotspot/icons and such. Yes most of that should be done prior in photoshop but if it was not totally perfect being able to say saturation="+2" would be a little convienent.

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 4:29pm

Zepher I dont think he means contrast and saturation of the actual pano itself. he wants the ability to apply them to hotspot/icons and such. Yes most of that should be done prior in photoshop but if it was not totally perfect being able to say saturation="+2" would be a little convienent.


Ah ok. Bit complexer from my side (I think you need an external controller plugin, that looks for hotspots with the attributes in them) Alsoo, and I might be wrong, that kind of alteration is performed on a bitmap level, with other words SWF, FLV and others would be rendered flat or maybe not even work at al, you have to update after every changel. Alsoo there isnt a "adjust saturation" filter, like there is a glow/bevel/shadow filter, it requires some evil manupulation with RGB values and evil matrixes. Requires some thinking... hmmm *puts thinking cap on* 010100011001111 bleep bleep

HansNyb

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Tuesday, January 11th 2011, 6:02pm

Zepher I dont think he means contrast and saturation of the actual pano itself. he wants the ability to apply them to hotspot/icons and such. Yes most of that should be done prior in photoshop but if it was not totally perfect being able to say saturation="+2" would be a little convienent.


Yes thats exactly what I meant. Using it for example to change a thumbnail to show that this pano has been seen.
There is a lot of possibilities with it.

But I also like to use it on a pano when popping up an image slideshow or a video. I assume the blur function can be used but it would be nice to have different options.

As a workaround I found the textfield.swf to be usable as transparent background which dims the pano.

Hans

16

Wednesday, January 12th 2011, 4:40pm

Hi,
Even a small Android 2.2 smartphone works perfect even for very large multiresolution and I want to support that as we get a lot of new Android devices including TVs with full Internet access and HD resolution on large screens.
I have just a Nexus One at the moment for Android testing and regarding to Google it should be the "Reference" Android phone, and with many big multires-panos don't perform very well, this was the reason why I have done the loading of the tablet/mobile images on Android,



Unfortunately I got a message from an iPod 4 Touch user yesterday that using the 512 tiling gives visible tiles on it. I assume this is the same on the iPhone 4.
right, that's true, it's a rounding error/issue,
I have already a fix or it but I still need to do some testing if it would work in any case,


It would have been nice if the image tags supported the devices settings. That would have solved all problems as it could have been set to flash for the large tiles.
having more <image> tags with different "device" tags is technically currently not possible in krpano,
but I will try to find a solution for that problem, maybe via simple setting to let Android ignore the mobile/tablet tags so that it will use the normal images,


@ Zephyr
thanks! you are right in many things!
your explanation about saturation/brightness for the pano is absolutely right!

best regards,
Klaus

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17

Wednesday, January 12th 2011, 5:57pm

Klaus what about brightness and saturation on the icons? FPP has had the feature for a LONG time. I suppose this is not the right post to ask this question.

HansNyb

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18

Wednesday, January 12th 2011, 6:35pm

Hi,
Even a small Android 2.2 smartphone works perfect even for very large multiresolution and I want to support that as we get a lot of new Android devices including TVs with full Internet access and HD resolution on large screens.
I have just a Nexus One at the moment for Android testing and regarding to Google it should be the "Reference" Android phone, and with many big multires-panos don't perform very well, this was the reason why I have done the loading of the tablet/mobile images on Android,



Unfortunately I got a message from an iPod 4 Touch user yesterday that using the 512 tiling gives visible tiles on it. I assume this is the same on the iPhone 4.
right, that's true, it's a rounding error/issue,
I have already a fix or it but I still need to do some testing if it would work in any case,


It would have been nice if the image tags supported the devices settings. That would have solved all problems as it could have been set to flash for the large tiles.
having more <image> tags with different "device" tags is technically currently not possible in krpano,
but I will try to find a solution for that problem, maybe via simple setting to let Android ignore the mobile/tablet tags so that it will use the normal images,

Klaus


Thanks Klaus

This sounds great, the new tablets like Acer's has specification with dualcore processors and 1280x800 screens so it is needed.
Hans

HansNyb

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Thursday, February 3rd 2011, 10:30am

This problem has now been fixed in the last update.
http://www.krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.ph…d&threadID=4333

Thanks Klaus and thanks Jarred for testing. That means we can now without problem use 512x512 tiles multiresolution instead of the mobile and tablet tags.

However Jarred reported another weird thing on iPhone 4.
He said that the sound on this one continuse to run after you close the website.
http://360-foto.dk/stjakobs/

I do not have that problem on iPad. I remember something similar from my old Mac in Safari, I believe that was a bug from MacOS 10.4

Hans

20

Thursday, February 3rd 2011, 3:29pm

Hi,
However Jarred reported another weird thing on iPhone 4.
He said that the sound on this one continuse to run after you close the website.
http://360-foto.dk/stjakobs/
I can't confirm this, on my iPhone 4 (iOS 4.2.1), the sound stops correctly when closing the page/tab/safari and it continues correctly when reopening it...

@Jarred
which iOS version do you have?

best regards,
Klaus